What do you actually do!? Episode 37: Luke D’Arcy, President at Momentum Worldwide

/ Anna Slivjancuka

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Luke is President at Momentum Worldwide, the most awarded global experiential agency in the world. With offices in over 30 countries the agency works for clients such as Samsung, Verizon, American Express, Microsoft, Coca Cola and Nike. He is a Harvard Business School alumni and has previously worked across numerous global marketing networks as well as client side for Richard Branson leading the launch the Formula One team at Virgin. Outside of work he juggles 5 kids and tries desperately to find time to keep fit.

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Transcript

(With time-stamps)

Kate 0:02  

You’re listening to the What Do You Actually Do!? podcast. Each week, we want to bring you an inspiring interview, a useful tip or encouraging message to help you find your place in the professional world. 

Kate 0:12  

Hello and welcome to this episode of What Do You Actually Do!?. My name is Kate Morris, and I’ll be your host today. In today’s episode we’ll be talking about leadership, business development, and working in experiential advertising. Today we’re joined by Skype by Luke D’Arcy, who’s the president of Momentum Worldwide. So Luke, what do you actually do?

Luke 0:32  

It’s a great opening question, isn’t it! If I struggle with this one, it could be a very short podcast. I guess… Look, I’m in a very privileged position to be one of those kinds of lucky people who loves what he does. So, you know, I run one of the world’s leading, as you said, experiential advertising agencies. We do events and sponsorship work, and virtual events all over the globe for some of the world’s biggest companies, like AMEX, and Coke, and Microsoft, and it’s enormous fun. So you know, I’m one of those annoying people who probably bounces out of bed every day. My job really boils down to making sure that I’m keeping our clients happy, that I’ve got a really, really talented workforce, and that the colleagues I work with are motivated, enthused, you know, have great career paths ahead of them. And so a lot of my time, when it’s not spent with clients, is spent looking at talent, and how we can either attract it or retain it in the business.

1:43  

So do you work with lots of different individuals across the business then? Or are you kind of with the heads of all of those different departments?

1:53  

Yeah, I suppose, like many organisations, working in advertising and marketing, you know, there are fairly standard structures within the organisation of: a board of leadership teams, of specialists teams within the business be that, you know, production or technology, or the creative department and things like that. So a lot of my time is spent working with those departmental heads, working with my board, but also with my international colleagues around the world as well. We are blessed, obviously, with having a global client base, and a global agency structure. So we’ve got about, you know, thirty offices across thirty countries. And so there’s interaction with those guys on a daily and weekly basis as well. A large amount of time, I would say a third of my time is probably spent with clients, a third of it is spent with my own internal teams, mainly based out here in the UK, and then a third of my time is spent probably with group clients and group colleagues across the globe.

2:53  

So it’s really varied then with sort of both that client facing stuff and the internal strategic kind of work.

3:00  

Yeah, I think, the joy of this kind of career, you have to embrace the madness, you know. There is an eclectic nature to the world of creativity and the world of marketing and advertising that is, you know, you have to embrace that. If you are hardwired to looking for, you know, a career where there is a very prescriptive agenda that you’re working to, and a very defined day, you know, everyday being kind of quite defined for you, I would say that probably the experiential advertising and marketing spaces, is probably not one you’re naturally going to gravitate towards. However, even within that, I would argue against myself by saying that we have some amazingly talented people who, from a project management perspective, think in a much more disciplined and linear fashion, and that probably helps herd the cats in the office.

3:57  

Can you just define experiential advertising for anyone who’s not familiar with it?

4:02  

Yeah, sure. I mean, this is a phrase that was only coined really in the last few years. I mean, all of your audience here are probably very familiar with things like advertising, be that from television, to radio, to outdoor media and posters, and bus sides, and all the rest of it, which we would consider traditional media. Then, of course, you had agencies like Momentum, for example, that started up some thirty years ago from an event perspective. So we would do anything from concert series, Olympic torch relays, you know, through to celebrity appearances, through to events that you would find in your local shops and supermarkets and things like that. It could be at any level really, and that, those events, essentially then blossomed into more experiences as brands woke up to the power of event marketing as well as advertising. It became much more what we’ve termed it experiential, and then from those experiences experiential advertising has kind of risen to the fore. Because actually, as media budgets around the world, and across our kind of client base have become, I suppose, more open to a multiplicity of different channels, be they online, offline, advertising, event marketing, sponsorship, etc. The world of experiential advertising has kind of risen to the top there, where brand messaging, in an event and experience created, the experiences that are created, I suppose, are pushing brand messages in a way that traditionally advertising would have done back in the day,

5:48  

I had a look at some of your case studies on the Momentum website. And I really loved the one where it was the cement truck that had been turned into a giant cocktail shaker, and then did a road trip of America. It looked amazing!

6:03  

Yeah. I mean, the the joy of the career, I suppose, that I’m blessed with, and that the team that worked with me are blessed with is, and I do pinch myself and I have spoken to my children about this – is that there is a magic slightly to dreaming up the craziest ideas and making them a reality. I mean, I find myself sometimes talking to clients and saying – look, there is, honestly… The kind of talent that I’m blessed with working within my company, there is nothing that, I say to clients that – “Look, there’s nothing that can’t be achieved, given the right time scale and budget. And if you want a concert on the moon, that is possible, but we just need the right budget and the right time scale to make that happen”. And I firmly believe that. I don’t think there’s been a single challenge that we’ve come up against that can’t be done. And I, you know, again, that comes down to the talent that you bring into the business, and the challenges that you can overcome from a client perspective and things like that. But we have, you know, at its best, we have fun on a daily basis, and push business performance for our clients and our brand messaging through new and interesting, and creative, and inspiring ways. And yeah, I suppose the world’s largest cocktail shaker is one of those things.

7:27  

It did look really fun! We’re obviously in the middle of a global pandemic right now, and I’m interested in how your day is different from normal. But also how that’s impacted on these really fun experiences, which, traditionally, that’s going to require, like, people actually seeing each other in real life. So how has it impacted on your personal role? And then with the business sort of more broadly?

7:53  

I think, look, to be candid, I think the best part of the last year has been unprecedented. I was very fortunate a couple of years ago to take some time out on a sabbatical and I went to Harvard Business School. And one of the things, interestingly, a couple of years ago we learned about was crisis management and things like that, and the crisis leadership that you may have to put into place one day. And then lo and behold, about 18 months later, I never thought, you know, that we would be putting it into place quite so quickly. But I have found in the last nine months, that it has been like an industrial revolution, in many ways, I think, both for my own personal role, but also those for, you know, for my company and the people we employ. It’s been extremely challenging, obviously, and we’re at the real sharp end here, because, you know, so much of the stuff we do might be live music concerts, or sporting events, like, you know, hosting events at places like Wimbledon, for example, or the Super Bowl or things like that. And suddenly we’ve had to pivot and adapt our entire business strategy to be much more digitally focused, much more virtual experiences. And suddenly, that’s changed an entire dynamic, opening up new opportunities, certainly, but really pivoting our business and accelerating it in a way that hasn’t happened before. And for my role, personally, I would say a lot more of my time over the last nine months has been inward facing, making sure that we have the processes and systems, and technology in place to allow remote working, to make sure also that my staff are well cared for and looked after, and to make sure that we are supporting them as best we can both financially and emotionally, and mentally as well.

9:51  

So it was quite lucky that you did that training before all this kicked off.

9:56  

Yeah, it certainly allowed me a little bit of experience – academic experience at least – to draw on. But also, Momentum is part of McCann Worldgroup. And McCann Worldgroup is part of Interpublic Group, who are our ultimate parent company. And so I’m also blessed with a lot of senior leaders and experts from around the world, and we, you know, we are communicating more than ever before, we are sharing best practices more than ever before, and making sure that, you know, we not only look after our clients business, but also look after our people as well.

10:36  

So kind of leading on from that, you’ve had a long career, and it’s obviously spanned various global recessions, particularly in recent years, including the current one. So how did you cope with that? And how did it impact on your career development? I’m just thinking a lot of students and recent graduates are worrying about, you know, graduating at this time, in this sort of difficult economy.

10:59  

I mean, yes, it’s funny, I look back and suddenly think, I have been working for 25 years, and yet it doesn’t feel like that. I certainly don’t feel that old! But I think we, yeah, we’ve lived through a few interesting times, there’s no doubt about it. The only thing I would say, actually, for graduates coming into the workplace – there are definitely things that are going to be more challenging. I think, you know, as we open every paper, open every news channel, and you hear about businesses, you know, closing or restructuring and, you know, there are more people now on the job market than perhaps ever before in recent memory. But – and it’s a big but – for the people who are graduating from places like York, I would say, you are coming out into a job marketplace with invaluable skills. You are a generation of digital natives, you are content creators, in a time when virtual, digital, social and content are absolutely paramount in a way that they’ve never been before. So I do think, actually, that the next generation of people coming into the workplace are coming with already being imbued with the most incredible skills, which some of the people who, you know, are a bit longer in the tooth, and I would include myself amongst those, we’ve had to play catch up, we’re having to learn, and adapt, and pivot ourselves, as well as our businesses, to embrace that. Whereas I think, and it’s not a trite example, you know, I would say as the father of five kids from the age of 14 down to nine months, you know, I see it with my own family every day, certainly my teenagers in my house are, they’re adept at videoing, editing, creating content. And it might be something like a Tik Tok video, but I can tell you, you know, they are valuable skills to be having in this day and age, to run across clients’ businesses. Your graduates are going to be coming into the marketplace armed with skills, which, for many, they are still learning the ropes on, and having to have, you know, training on, and your guys are going to be out there and immediately knowledgeable about this stuff.

13:27  

I think it’s a really interesting point. I speak to a lot of students who, I don’t think they acknowledge the value of those skills, because they think it’s just obvious. So they don’t even want to put on their CV that they can do that kind of stuff. So, what was your starting point? And where did your interest in marketing and business development come from?

13:47  

Back in the day when I was a graduate, I wanted to become a journalist, actually; journalism was my passion and interest. And when I was at University at Leicester, you know, I busied myself with working at the college paper, and then I got a job at the local paper, and I had, already by that stage at school, I’d had the experience of working at a national newspaper, at The Times and things like that. So journalism was the route through which I was kind of ploughing myself, and doing an English and History and American Studies degree, I thought that was going to be my career of choice. And I guess, what became obvious to me was – I loved the creativity of writing. I also enjoyed the creative process and I ended up, through my university career, at the end of it, working on a world charity cricket tour for Save the Children, the essence of which was: 52 matches in 52 countries in 52 weeks. 

14:51  

Wow!

14:51  

I was like a tour manager and PR manager for this undertaking. And as that progressed, I ended up having a very happy circumstance, and this again comes down by luck more than design. I was on a train journey from London to Edinburgh, and I got chatting about this particular charitable kind of undertaking to a guy on a train, a guy called Merv Edgecombe, who worked in PR. And I remember chatting to Merv, and by the time I got off the train in Edinburgh, he offered me an internship for the summer, working in the Southbank Centre in London for a music festival that was going on. And so I did that. And then from there, I got introduced to a couple of other people who happened to run a field marketing agency, and so, I kind of was looking for a job, and I had done everything from kind of PR to conferencing, to then going into a field marketing agency. And so it was at the more salesy end of marketing that I started my career, but still having an element of kind of creativity. And I knew that a career with creativity, and if possible, writing at its heart, or the creation of content at its heart, was something that I would be passionate about. And that was kind of how I started out. I mean, you know, shamelessly, I got my first job really more on the prowess of me on the rugby field, than in the classroom. And I got a boss who liked having, you know, having a rugby player on his staff, who could join his local team. And I had played at an England student level in rugby, and I said to him – “Yeah, I’ll join your club”, and then he gave me a job much to my surprise. But that started me out, and I think, again, my career has kind of unfolded from there. I’ve gone in, worked at several agencies, you know, in marketing capacities, getting more and more senior. I realised that the kind of new business element, I seem to have a talent at, rather than the project management side of it. And I enjoyed meeting new people, I enjoyed learning about new things, I enjoyed that kind of eclectic creativity, so I did that. And then I jumped over and worked client side at Virgin for a while, I helped Richard Branson launch a Formula One team. And then I came back over to agency side again, after the crazy world of F1 and Virgin, which I enjoyed thoroughly, but I went back over and then have ploughed my career, I suppose, for the last decade or so within Momentum, and kind of risen through the ranks there to now help run this business globally as well, and enjoy, you know, pretty much every day. Even in the crazy time we’re living in at the moment, you realise you never stop learning. And it’s, I find it fascinating. Even at the toughest times, I think, you’ve got to remind yourself, you’re: one, incredibly lucky to be doing a job that you enjoy, and two, in a very privileged position compared to some people to be earning a decent living.

18:07  

It’s interesting how that starting point was by doing stuff you just enjoyed, personal interest way, so that the sport stuff and working with the society, and the cricket trip, which sounded amazing. How that a) it gives you interesting things to talk about to random strangers on the train, and you know, maybe at networking events or careers events, or whatever. But b) it also makes you a more interesting person. So I think by doing interesting activities, doing stuff that you’re genuinely passionate about, that comes across well. And taking those opportunities when it arises, saying yes to things, you know, even though it was that more salesy stuff at the beginning, it wasn’t so creative, that you were sort of totally in line with your interests, but it was a foot in the door, to then get you to be able to progress from that point.

18:55  

Yeah, some of the advice I sometimes give people would be that there will always be a nugget of, even in the most mundane task or mundane job, or when you think – “Oh, great, I’m being you know, sent down the road to go and pick something up”. But you never, you know, the point is – you could meet somebody interesting on that journey, you can meet somebody when you’re going in and picking something up for your agency that you work for, you know, at 11 o’clock at night on a pitch or something, and suddenly you’re like… There are creative collisions that happen – I’m a firm believer in it – that happened for a reason. And yeah, I may not have ever been on that train up to Edinburgh, or I may not have been armed with something to talk about. I do think that for graduates right now as well, we do as employers obviously look for a base level of decent education, but also that level of how have you applied yourself above and beyond the academic is key. And also sometimes as employers we can be very forgiving about academia, if you come with a passion and a sense of enthusiasm. I mean, that can separate people out. And certainly if it comes down to, the academic qualifications are all kind of the same for a group people you’re seeing. The enthusiasm, the passion, the drive, the willingness to roll up the sleeves and get stuck into things and have an infinite sense of kind of curiosity, and people who honestly are going to be really good team players, you know, then that is really worth its weight in gold, as an employer, and certainly something that I and my team look for, when we’re employing people as well.

20:38  

Students often wonder whether further education is useful after graduating, or whether to focus on building up experience. What’s your perspective on this? Because you’ve obviously benefited from that Harvard course that you did. So I can see how it’s really enhanced your perspective on those kinds of things. But do you think at the beginning stages, it’s worth doing stuff like that? Or they should just get out and try and get as much experience as possible?

21:03  

It’s a really good question. I left Leicester University thinking, should I go and do a journalism Postgrad or something like that. And actually, for some people postgraduate courses are incredibly valuable, and can be very vocationally focused, and can help ease you into, you know, in certain employers. And certain employers actively look for that kind of qualification as well, no doubt about it. For me, and I can only speak personally, I think getting out and trying to get some experience was key, because it gives you something to talk about. I mean, then however, later in my career, and you know, obviously, the Harvard piece really came into play just over a couple of years ago. So, you know, I was probably, what, 45 or something at that stage. I realised that I was at a juncture in my career where I wanted to elevate my sense of learning, I wanted an executive education, and I felt I had more to learn. And maybe I was slightly more mature at that stage to realise the value of the learning experience,  maybe I paid a little bit more attention. But I think there’s a mix, you can’t have one without the other. I mean, equally, I do know, and I have employed people at Momentum who left school at 16. You know, I mean, it’s a rarity these days, but I had an Executive Creative Director who left school at 16, and went to work for The Beano, for DC Comics and stuff like that. I mean, people come from all different backgrounds. And I’ve also got people who have kept going through their kind of academic qualifications for a number of years longer than other people. We look for different skill sets in different levels of the business, different kinds of, you know, different departments and things like that. But I would strongly suggest that people, as well as the importance of academics, it is about getting out there and getting some experience. That experience can manifest itself in a host of different ways, but we as employers do look for that, definitely.

23:19  

So I can really sense the sort of enjoyment, enthusiasm and appreciation of the work that you do and the people that you work with. What’s the worst bit of the role?

23:31  

The worst bit… I suppose, look, I mean, again, we’ve lived through… Not every day, I suppose, is a is an amazing day, and I’d be a liar if I said there aren’t days where you, you know, don’t feel like throwing the duvet back over your head and going – “Oh my God, do I really have to get up today”, but they’re luckily very rare. The higher up in the organisation you go, you feel the burden of responsibility. Being a leader is about eventually what you can do for other people, not about what you can do for yourself. I think you’ve spent a lot of time in the early part of your career looking to further, you know, push yourself, further your own interest, and your own career development, and financial success,and things like that. But you do get to a stage, and I’ve definitely got to level and stage now, where I realise – it isn’t about me, this is about… The weird juxtaposition is: the higher up an organisation you get, the more pressure you feel that you have a responsibility for everyone under you. You know, there are people whose lives and family existences, they are determined by decisions that you make. And, in this, you know, in the last year especially as well, there have been some incredibly tough decisions, you know. No business has been immune from things like restructures, and things like that, and I’ve had to make some hard decisions in that way. They do cause you sleepless nights. You know, I don’t want anyone to ever think that you don’t lie awake at night worrying about people’s livelihoods. You do. But then, that is what you’re being paid for. As well as to lead people through the good times, you’re being paid to lead through challenging times as well.

25:12  

And what do you think the key challenges are going to be for experiential advertising, and the marketing sector in general, over the next few years? I mean, obviously, we’ve got a lot going on with the pandemic, with Brexit. Are there key things that students should be researching or anticipating to help prepare themselves?

25:29  

I think from the experiential advertising perspective, we are going to live in a hybrid culture, and a hybrid marketing culture certainly, moving forward. I am a firm believer that we will get through, obviously, this pandemic. I think, you know, the vaccination programmes and things like that will kick in, there will be immunity, and eventually… We’ve all been starved of the oxygen of, you know, whether it’s embracing our families, or going to concerts, or traveling abroad, or going on holiday. And, you know, we will crave experiences like never before. But I think what we’ve also realised is, there is a power to the virtual world, to using digital technologies in a way that, to both work and create for brands, that we hadn’t embraced as fully before. And I think that will continue. Whilst I also think the elevation of events and experiences will be more prevalent than ever, because we’ve lived through a time where we haven’t had access to that, and we realised just how important that is. From the smallest thing like an experience of a meal around a table with your family, through to huge global concerts, or, you know, music festivals, or film festivals or, you know, anything that you can imagine, sporting events that we used to take for granted to be able to go to. Those kinds of things, I hope we hold a little bit more precious, a little bit more dear to now. And for us, in the industry that I work in, you know, we will come out of this, in a way, having pivoted our business into a much more hybrid approach to that experiential advertising than ever before. And I think probably, you know, in the second part of your question, for your graduates, and for those people listening to this, I think – realise the skills that you’re bringing to the table. I mentioned it earlier, I think, in our conversation, but technology in the future of work is at the forefront in a way that it’s never been before. We have fundamentally challenged the way that we as employers think, we have been fundamentally challenged in the structures that we have in place, the flexibility that we offer in working. The notion of, you know, the nine to five, five days a week in an office is, I believe, in our industry a thing of the past. I think there’s going to be a hybrid sense of working there as well, where, you know, we will appreciate the balance that there is between bringing people together for creative collisions, and the power of creativity as we come together, but also, there are many functions of our business that can be done remotely, as well. And that gives great flexibility, I hope, and a work life balance which is good, both economically, socially and mentally for the workforce of the future. 

28:41  

Yeah, I think it sounds like interesting times ahead then. So it’s kind of, doing what you do best, that you know you are good at, and people will have an even greater appetite for that. But there’s a lot of new stuff with the technology and realising how well that can work.

28:56  

Yeah, definitely. I mean, we’ve done everything this last kind of 9-10 months, from, you know, one week we’re doing Dua Lipa and Elton John in concert or something like that on a smart stage, through to huge global events and conferences in bespoke created virtual environments, that allow kind of networking and interaction, and live Q&A’s, through to programmatic content creation, where you’re producing essentially virtual live TV shows in a way that, you know, realistically a year ago you would have been doing those things in the real world. And now you’re building them out in the virtual world. So I think areas like technology, like gaming, content creation, 3D animation, as well as your real world skills, are all going to be an amazing kind of cocktail mix of creativity, that we’re going to come through this time and come out the other end with new things being created that, you know, I think we could have only imagined a year or two ago. I think the pace of change, and I keep referring to it almost like a kind of an industrial revolution, I think. You know, one of our clients is Microsoft, and listening to Satya Nadella, the global CEO of Microsoft, you know, he talked about kind of, almost kind of, you know, decades of change happening in the space of months. And we really, you know, it’s not an overestimation to believe that. It has been quite transformational.

30:40  

It is quite mind blowing when you think about it, isn’t it. Because even my job at the university was obviously face to face, seeing lots of different students, going to different rooms to do different presentations. Literally all of that can still be done from my spare bedroom. And that’s kind of mind blowing when you think about it.

31:01  

Yeah, I mean, it is. It was funny, I was discussing this both with people in my business, but also, you know, applying it to my kids schooling and things like that. You kind of think, look, there are inherent strengths of this flexibility of working, whether that’s in business, or it’s schooling, or it’s at the university. There are, however, inherent risks, and I would hate to think of a time where technology becomes so ingrained that you become isolated. I think there is an inherent power in both your career and in, certainly in the creative world that I operate in, bringing people together. And I think those social interactions, I think there are so many things that we enjoy and also learn when you bring people together. So I think we’ve got to embrace the strength of both of those things, really.

31:50  

So finally, any other bits of advice for students thinking about working in this sector? You mentioned getting experience is good? Is there anything specific? We hear a lot about virtual internships now. Is there anything sort of particularly that you would recommend students try and do they want to get into marketing?

32:07  

I think just.. There are some real basics, and I’m still staggered at how many people… You’ll separate yourself out from 50% of all people who are applying if you actually know something about the business that you’re applying for. And that sounds like such an obvious thing, but I’m still staggered, frankly, by, you know… One of the first questions I ask is what particular brand campaigns have you enjoyed that we’ve launched recently, or, you know, why is Momentum of interest to you, as a business to come and work here. You want people to be actively interested in it, or at least even challenge something that you’ve done, or challenge the set of cultural values that you have, or ask you some interesting questions around things. So I think that kind of thing is key. Be actively interested in the business you’re going for in the category that you’re looking to break into as well. What are the big opportunities in events, in sponsorship, in advertising that you see, you know, that maybe you can discuss with a potential employer. I then think the sense of infectious enthusiasm; everyone knows that you’re looking for a job, but also have the confidence of knowing that if you’re brought into a virtual interview, or you are brought into a room physically, there has been a level of acceptance that you are of an academic level, that got you to that table. In which case at that point, as an employer, I want to know more about you. And I want to really know more about what makes you tick, and what kind of individual and character are you, and your passions, and personality. And I’m working out all the time about how would you work with this particular team, or, you know, can I see you in front of that client, or what part of my business would you be relevant for. So a sense of infectious enthusiasm and a sense of positivity goes an incredibly long way as well. And then, yes, have a couple of aces up your sleeve in terms of experience that you’ve had, or things that you’ve done. For example, I’ll give you an example. Even something, and it doesn’t always have to be work experience lead. I would say, and this comes down to the knowledge you have of the business. One of the things that we have done a few years ago was we built an underwater mobile phone store right off the coast of Dubai for Sony launching their waterproof phone. We built an entire store out about three meters down right under the sea. And one of the things I thought was, I’ve never yet had somebody come to me who, you know, you could shoehorn in your interest in diving or a holiday in Egypt or anything, you know, but if you knew that we had done that kind of campaign, if you’ve done your research, you’d kind of go – “Actually one of the things I’d love to do, I want to do that and I’m a qualified PADI diver” or something, and that kind of thing, you know. “When are you going to do the next one of those?”, because now one, that demonstrates your knowledge of my business, two, you’ve now shoehorned the fact that you might like diving in Egypt, but you’ve now made it relevant to my business. You don’t always have to have vocational interests and training, you can make it relevant. Your passion for music or a music artist, you know, and coming to the table and talking about that. Or I employ a strategist, for example, in our Manchester team who, in her spare time she’s a DJ, she has a massive active interest in music. And her passion is putting on gigs for people with special needs, for example, and for heavily disabled individuals who don’t usually get to go to club nights and things like that. And suddenly, that kind of thing differentiates you from 99% of the people who’ve come in through the door. And suddenly, I think – “Wow, you’re really, you’re giving back to society in a meaningful way. You have a real active interest, you’re getting up there and doing something, not just talking about it, and making things happen in culture”. And they’re the kind of people I want to employ, definitely.

36:13  

Thank you, that sounds amazing. And I think that would be really reassuring for lots of students to think that actually, it’s them as a person that can be just as important and their enthusiasm, and their potential, rather than just having done the most fanciest internship in a top City firm type thing. Of course that stuff can be really useful, but not everyone can have the chance to do them. Well, for more information about the careers we’ve mentioned today, I’m going to add some relevant links to the show notes and a link to the full transcript of today’s show for anyone that needs it. But I just want to say thank you so much, Luke, for giving up so much of your time today. Apologies, we had a few technical errors there, but no one listening to this will ever be aware of that, it will sound seamless. 

36:54  

Yeah, it’ll be smooth as silk. But that’s the COVID reality we live in. But listen, it’s been great to talk to you. Thank you so much for the opportunity. And listen, I wish everyone the best of success. And who knows? Maybe I’ll be seeing some of those York students and York graduates come across my desk at some stage in the future.

37:14  

Thanks for joining us this week on What Do You Actually Do!? This episode was hosted by myself Kate Morris, edited by Stephen Furlong, and produced by both of us. If you love this podcast, spread the word and subscribe. Are you eager to get more tips? Follow University of York Careers and Placements on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. All useful links are in this episode description. This has been produced at the University of York Careers and Placements. For more information visit york.ac.uk/careers