Listen to this and all the previous episodes.

Tim’s bio:

BAFTA and RTS award winning Executive Producer with over 20 years’ experience in TV. I’ve run a whole array of different shows from juggernaut brands like ‘Ant and Dec’s Saturday Night Takeaway’ and ‘Take Me Out’ through to chat shows such as ‘Lateish with Mo Gilligan’ and ‘The Big Narstie Show’ and created brand new formats from scratch like ‘In For A Penny’. I’ve worked with a range of talent from Simon Cowell and Harry Styles through to David Walliams and Kelly Rowland and love making noisy blockbuster TV filled with edge of your seat excitement and drama.

Useful links:

• Creative industries careers
• Media sector page
• Skills and training for creative industries

To hear more Media and Creative sector related podcast stories:

• All roads lead to filmmaking, Richard Knight
• Getting involved with theatre, John Tomlinson
• From lecture theatres to film sets, Hannah Greig
• Historical Consulting for Video Games, Nick Gliserman
• Running an advertising firm, Luke D’Arcy

Transcript:

Kate: 

You’re listening to the ‘What Do You Actually Do?’ podcast. Each week we want to bring you an inspiring interview, a useful tip or encouraging message to help you find your place in the professional world. 

Hello and welcome to this episode of ‘What Do You Actually Do?’. My name is Kate Morris, and I’ll be your host today. In today’s episode, we’ll be talking about working as an executive producer in the TV sector. Today we’re joined by Tim Dean, who is a BAFTA and RTS award-winning executive producer working on some of the UK’s biggest household shows including Ant and Dec Saturday Night Takeaway, and Britain’s Got More Talent. So Tim… 

Tim: 

Hello! 

Kate: 

What do you actually do? 

Tim: 

I expect loads of people who I work with ask that same question every single day. I guess in a nutshell, what I do is I’m an exec producer of various shows. So, in a nutshell, my job is to be in charge of the overall content of the show that I’m making. And what that sort of means is that I’m responsible for and in charge of: crewing the show up, employing everyone, coming up with ideas for the show… If it’s an edited show – being over the edit and the content that’s there. If it’s a live show – coming up with the running orders and being in the gallery with the directors and the series producers, liaising with talent and their agents, liaising with punters, making sure that the channel are happy with what you’re producing, and of course, my own boss. That’s I guess in a nutshell is what I do. 

Kate: 

So, what’s the difference between a producer and an executive producer then? 

Tim: 

There’s lots of levels in television. So essentially, most people start in television, like myself, as a runner, and then, basically, that’s your sort of entry point into television. And then, on lots of TV shows there are various different types of producers. So, in general, they all report directly to the exec producer. So, there might be edit producers, who just work in an edit suite with an editor, helping to craft the show that you’re making. There might be live producers, who are in charge of coming up with running orders and ensuring that your live show goes to plan and liaising with all the different departments. There might be casting producers, who are in charge of finding you lots of good members of the public to take part in your show. There might be celebrity producers, who are in charge of getting you good celebs and talent to appear on the show. So, there’s all… And the list goes on. So, there’s all sorts of different levels of producer, but essentially, they all report into the exec producer. 

Kate: 

It sounds like with those different levels, they’re quite focused and specialist on one element, whereas you’re like the overlord. 

Tim: 

Yeah, I don’t think I’d call myself the overlord, God… But I guess, in essence, you’re the boss. And obviously I have a boss myself, but basically, you’re in charge of making sure that every single different department of the show is going as well as, hopefully, fingers crossed, it can possibly go. And they are basically in charge of those specific things, so making sure that individual elements are running as well and smoothly as they can. 

Kate: 

So, you mentioned you started out as a runner, but your degree was in social policy, right? 

Tim: 

It was! Literally nothing to do with my job. 

Kate: 

But where did your interest in TV come from then? If the degree had nothing to do with it, where did that interest come from? 

Tim: 

Do you know what, I’ll give my parents [] here… My dad always said to me, and I guess this is advice that I would offer to anyone, is that I think, you know – your job is a huge part of your daily life and who you are as a person. And I was always given the advice that you should try and do a job that you enjoy. And when I was younger, I was like – well, what do I enjoy? Like, it’s quite a hard question sometimes to answer, although on the face of it, it isn’t. And I was like – oh, I quite like music, but I can’t sing and I’m not very good at playing an instrument. I like football, but I’ve got two left feet. And then I was like – oh, what else do I like? And I was like – oh, actually, I like watching TV, as most teenagers probably do. And that sort of manifested itself into – oh, I’d quite like to work in TV. And then actually when I was at York University, I don’t know if it still exists now, but there was like York Student Television and I took part in that briefly, and then I quite enjoyed that. And then after I left university, I thought – actually, I’m going to try and pursue a career in that. So, my very first job in TV, I was a runner on a show back in the day called Euro Trash. Do you remember Euro Trash? 

Kate: 

I do. 

Tim: 

Yeah, I mean, for anyone who doesn’t know what Euro Trash was, it was basically a late-night Channel 4… Basically it was kind of soft porn, really. 

Kate: 

It was a weird show. Let’s be honest, it was weird. 

Tim: 

Yeah, it was a very rude show. And basically, it involved Jean Paul Gaultier and a man called Antoine de Caunes. And they basically used to just rinse Europeans and their weird little idiosyncrasies. And I was basically in charge of the porn cupboard. That was my very first job in telly. And they used – this is back in the day before everything was online – there used to be basically this huge, huge cabinet of porn, and I used to have to… I was basically in charge of it and finding bits of the porn that we could show on TV, which on the face of it – as a like a 21–22-year-old – oh, that’s a great job. But actually, in reality, when you’re hungover on Monday morning, the last thing anyone really wants to be watching is hardcore German porn. So, my mother used to just tell all her friends that her son was working on a programme about European cultural affairs, which technically was right, but it was a bit more precise than that. 

Kate: 

Yeah, that sounds like an interesting introduction to the industry. 

Tim: 

It was. 

Kate: 

I speak to a lot of students and graduates who are interested in breaking into the sector. It can be really tough, and you can get caught in this trap of doing lots of unpaid things or just really short-term contracts. Have you got any advice for, kind of, how to start earning and making this into an actual career? 

Tim: 

Yeah, it is. I think TV’s being quite hot on now, on making sure that people don’t work unpaid, so hopefully that doesn’t necessarily happen anymore. I think it is, one of the hardest things about TV is – it is really, really competitive. But I guess what I would say is, that if it is something that you are really passionate about, like whatever you’re passionate about in life, whatever you want, you know, it’s worth pursuing. And I guess something that… There’s lots of different areas of TV that people might decide that they want to work in. They might not necessarily decide that they want to be a producer. They might decide they want to be a cameraman; they might decide they want to be a director or an editor, or a sound man. They might decide they want to be a floor producer. Do you know what I mean, I would say there’s lots of different areas of TV that they can work in, and each area has a slightly different route into it. 

Kate: 

So you mentioned you did YSTV when you were a student. Anything else in terms of experience that helped you get that first foot in the door that you’d recommend people try out. 

Tim: 

Basically, I think you have got to send a lot of emails. And if I’m really honest, any IN that you can get – try it. I feel like, find the show that you really love watching, you’d like -’You know what, I’d really like to go and’… It might be anything from Frozen Planet to Strictly Come Dancing, to blankety blank, do you know what I mean. What shows do you actually enjoy watching? Look at the credits and then it’s not that hard, more often than not, to work out someone’s e-mail address, and then just send a nice e-mail to someone would be my advice. And then if anyone does have any INS, as they say, whether it be through friends and family, I’d always suggest trying to push it that way. But it is hard, but it is more than possible to get a foot in the door and then it’s basically up to you to sort of seize that opportunity. 

Kate: 

So it’s a kind of networking, getting started… 

Tim: 

Yeah, it’s also just…. You don’t have to… My degree had literally nothing to do with television. And I actually think it’s actually benefited. I think lots of people go out there and they do purely like media degrees, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I think lots of people in TV, like myself, their degrees had nothing to do with it, and it’s actually proven that they’ve got other skills as well and interests other than just working in TV. So that’s also really beneficial. There’s lots of schemes these days that lots of production companies have where they’re trying to find and nurture young new talent, so trying to jump in on any of those, as well, will always be beneficial. 

Kate: 

Brilliant. So thinking about your role then, you mentioned you’re, kind of, it sounds like you’re juggling so many different things and having to have an oversight of so many different things. What kind of personal strengths or qualities would you say that you need to have to be happy and successful working as an executive producer? Because I could imagine it could be mega, mega stressful for some people. So what kind of personal skills do you need to, to really be good at it and enjoy it. 

Tim: 

Number one skill is finding people who are better than you and employing them under you. They will definitely do a great job at making you look great. I would just say also someone just needs to be creative and confident in themselves, and hard working. Like it sounds a bit cheesy, like ‘Oh, God, is that all you need, to be creative and hard working’, but those are really like the fundamental skills in many careers, I imagine. And I think if you’re passionate about what you want to do, and if you’ve got ideas about what you can do with things, but ultimately, you’re not afraid of getting your hands dirty, I feel like you’ll do really well. And if you’re a nice person; people like nice people. 

Kate: 

Yeah, I get the impression it’s kind of a small world once you get into the sector, so building those relationships… 

Tim:  

Yeah, it really is. TV, I imagine, like almost any industry, from the outside you’re like – ‘oh, God, that’s a huge industry’. But the fact of the matter is that as soon as you’re in it, everyone very quickly knows everyone. And obviously there’s lots of different types of TV you might work in – factual, or docs, or drama, or, like myself, entertainment, or comedy. And the world becomes ever smaller the more you are in your little area. So, you know, everyone in entertainment TV basically knows everyone, and then I’m sure the same as in all those other fields. 

Kate: 

So, what do you really love about the work? Because, as I said, to me it does just sound really stressful having to… It just sounds like an organisational nightmare. So, what is it for you that you really love about it? You’ve had a long career in the sector now. So what keeps you going with it? 

Tim: 

I would say… Well, first of all, it’s the people that you work with. In general, most of the people that you work with are like-minded, fun, creative people. And I personally really like just having a fun, good time at work, and if you can work with people who are all sort of that ilk, then that can only []. I think also, more often than not, for me personally anyway, you’re getting to do lots of fun. I’ve done lots of fun, cool things that you wouldn’t normally get to do in everyday life, like whether it be meeting lots of interesting and famous people that you’ve only ever seen, you know, in magazines or TV, or you know, whether it be… I’ve done lots of things I really enjoy from, I don’t know, getting David Walliams to perform with a bunch of Magic Mike men on TV, or I’ve given away a house, you know, I’ve got people from the streets of Cardiff to eat Cornish pasty off a fishing line. And obviously, all those three things are vastly different, but each of them comes with their own fun and entertainment factor, and I guess that’s the one good thing that I enjoy most about TV – that no day is really ever the same, and definitely no show or series is ever the same. 

Kate: 

So, and are you coming up with those ideas, or is that kind of the team around you? People suggest different things and you decide to go with it or not? 

Tim: 

It’s often a mixed bag, I think. More often than not, you have ideas meetings with all your team, and then quite often what happens is – they’ll pitch ideas for what we can do and what we can’t do, and then you take it from there. So, at the moment, I’m working on a brand new reality show for E4, which actually doesn’t have a title at the moment. But basically, it’s extreme celebrity wellness, and the idea of it is that we take eight celebrities, and they have to do various different extreme wellness things. And it’s all about getting them to open up, and lots of them have little insecurities that they themselves are dealing with. And so, the team, before we were filming, were pitching so many different wellness ideas, and you go through them in like with a fine-tooth comb working out what would look good on camera, what would be pushing them too far, what is actually doable within the budget and time constraints. So, it’s always a team effort. 

Kate: 

What’s the worst aspect of the role then? 

Tim: 

Ah, I guess… Oh God, I knew you were going to ask me this. I was thinking- ‘oh, God, what is a good answer for what is the worst thing’. Do you know, it is highly competitive. 

Kate: 

Right. 

Tim: 

And it is sometimes more vocational than just a normal job, but I imagine that most jobs – I can’t really compare it – but I imagine that most jobs that require a lot of passion, are probably of the same ilk. So I guess the things to be wary of is that it isn’t really a nine to five job, you don’t get in at your desk, sit down, and then get to walk out at 5 and really forget about… It’s a lot of weekend work sometimes, and it can come with a lot of pressures the higher up you go. But I would guess that that’s no different to many other lines of work. So I hope that wouldn’t put anyone off. 

Kate: 

So, the sort of work life balance, and I guess with the competitiveness… On the one hand, you’re saying you kind of want to work with people that you really like, but then if you’re kind of competing for similar jobs. Does that ever get a bit tricky then? 

Tim: 

No, not really. Weirdly, I think everyone’s like fully aware you’re all in the same boat. So that never, no, I don’t think so… Not for the most part. TV is a really fun industry, and it can be really creative, and you can have a really good time doing it and you can travel to all corners of the globe filming with incredible people, doing incredible things, and I don’t know many other industries like that. And it’s really exciting and ever evolving, and it’s also sometimes really satisfying that you can work for weeks and months at a time on a project, and then getting to see it go out on TV and hearing your friends and your family talk about it, and sometimes even seeing it on shows like Gogglebox, where everyone’s reacting to what you’ve done, makes all the hard work worth it, I think. 

Kate: 

Yeah, that must be really satisfying to sort of – you see an actual product for your hard work. 

Tim: 

Yeah. Hugely, immensely so. And it’s fun when your friends are – and this doesn’t happen on every show I’ve ever worked on – but when you work on a show that your friends actually have an interest in, and they’re asking loads of questions about it, and you’re like -’Oh, OK, you are actually into it’. Like that’s fun, and that’s interesting as well. 

Kate: 

I’m just wondering how the pandemic kind of impacted on your work? And I guess maybe continues to impact on it? Do you think it’s changed the industry permanently, or was it just another issue to just deal with and adapt to? 

Tim: 

Yeah, I do think it has changed industry actually. It’s interesting because, actually, very much so companies, like the company work at the moment, they’re now very much more encouraging of sort of a free to split of, you know, three days in the office, two days working from home. So, I think that’s been a real positive for it. Like people proved over the pandemic, that entire series could be made from peoples’s bedrooms and sitting rooms, and kitchens. So that’s, I guess that’s been a really positive thing to come out of it, and that actually we don’t all have to be chained to the desk. So that’s really positive. I think it’s probably also had an effect on like budgets of programmes, sometimes, you know, they aren’t quite as abundant as maybe they were. But in general, I feel like COVID hasn’t had too much of an impact on telly, it’s my personal opinion. 

Kate: 

And kind of, thinking ahead for students or recent grads who are excited, they want to break into the sector… What do you think the key challenges will be for executive producers, or the creative media sector in general over the next few years? Is there anything that people should have a heads up about and start to think about or prepare for? 

Tim: 

Ah, that’s a good question. I feel like TV is just ever evolving, so it’d be almost impossible for me to say – ‘oh, you’ve got to be aware of this’. Lots of TV isn’t watched how it was watched when I was a kid. Like people, you know, through Netflix and Amazon and Disney and whatever else, can watch what they want when they want at the touch of a button, and I think that’s been brilliant for it. So, I would just say it’s ever evolving. And just to try and always stay on top of current trends and curves. And that would be my one advice about what the future of telly is all about. You know, ten years ago, it was all about making talent shows and they were literally the most watched shows in the country. You know, when you had the likes of X-Factor and BGT, and now maybe arguably dramas are sort of taking over a bit, and people watch a lot more of those. But it always just, the circle just goes round and round, doesn’t it? And I’m sure talent shows will have their time again and whatever else, and other shows and genres, they’ll peak as well. 

Kate: 

So, when you say ‘keeping up with the sector’, is it a case of just, you know, watch stuff, watch things that you enjoy and kind of get a sense of if there tends to be popular areas where there’s lots of programmes about similar things or if there’s niche areas. Is it just watching and kind of getting ideas? Or are there particular places that have information about what’s happening in the sector and ways that people can stay up to date that way? 

Tim: 

There’s lots of internal broadcast magazines and websites that people can access, like they definitely exist. Like televisual – it’s actually called broadcast – they’re always full of current information. But something that was actually said to me when I first started out in telly, it was like – people who want to work in TV, they need to watch TV just to see what you’re interested in and what people are doing. Like sometimes I find it quite funny when people in TV say – ‘Oh, I don’t have time to watch TV’. It’s like – ‘Well, why are you working in telly then?’. Like I think it’s important to watch those because they will have an effect on how you will make your own shows. And you might watch TV shows and just go – oh my God, I loved what they did there, or I love how they did this, or this presenter was brilliant, or they had this amazing member of the public on, we need someone like that. And that is really important to watch other shows because a) it’s fun and b) it’s not much work and c) it will inspire you in your own programme making. 

Kate: 

Yeah, I think that makes sense. And I guess your point around the fact that it’s an ever-changing industry, you need to be the kind of person that thrives on that variety and uncertainty, rather than somebody who perhaps likes to have, you know, everything’s clearly laid out in step 1, step 2, step 3, this is what you’re going to do now, and that’s how it all works. 

Tim: 

Very much so. But there’s lots and lots of different areas of television that will require a whole different breadth of skills, is what I would say as well. And so, if any students are like – ‘Oh, the idea of working in TV appeals, but I’m not sure quite what I would like to do’, they should just give it a little bit of research and, as I was saying, maybe you want to be a cameraman, a sound man, work in lighting… Also, with lots of these jobs you might go like – ‘Oh lighting, that sounds, you know, on the face of it maybe slightly dull’. It’s actually really fun and exciting, and it pays incredibly well. So it’s like, there’s lots of areas of TV that people might not be aware of, and they might think – ‘Oh my skill set doesn’t suit that.’ But actually, I’m sure they’d actually be surprised, and that they actually probably do fit many of the different types of positions and roles that there are. 

Kate:  

And in terms of researching that, are there any particular resources you recommend, or is it better to just get experience being a runner and observe what those other roles involve? 

Tim: 

Yes, getting first-hand experience will really, really help. But then, you know, you might decide that’s where lots of people, like, so many people in TV start like that. Like, if you wanted to be a cameraman, you become a camera assistant. If you wanted to be an editor, you work in edit house. So yes, it is quite, I think like any job, just reading off a piece of paper – oh, a production manager is in charge of schedules and helps the show run efficiently – on a line on a piece of paper you might still not be quite sure about what that job actually entails. But so, actually going in and becoming a runner, and getting first-hand experience, and having a look around, and talking to people in the industry, and seeing what they do, and thinking about what might appeal to you – that is probably the best way for it to happen. 

Kate: 

Great. Well for more info about the careers we’ve mentioned today, I’m going to add some relevant links to the show notes and the link to the full transcript of today’s show. But Tim, thank you so much for taking time out.

Tim: 

Uh, no, no worries. I hope people should… If anyone’s listening, it is a really exciting career. I hope you should have a think about what TV shows they want to work on, and what you decide that you might want to work on, and then, you know, I think lots of people can have lots of fun doing it. Ultimately, on nine out of ten days I come to work, and I have fun. And that’s basically, you can’t get much better than that. 

Kate: 

Yeah, and there aren’t many jobs that you can say that. 

Tim: 

No, I imagine there aren’t. But you know, that doesn’t mean it’s not hard work, that doesn’t mean it doesn’t come without its stresses, but for the most part, it is really fun. And you get to do a lot of really cool, fun things and silly things, and that’s what I mostly enjoy about working in TV. 

Kate: 

Thank you for joining us this week on ‘What Do You Actually Do?’. This episode was hosted by me, Kate Morris, edited by Stephen Furlong and produced by both of us. If you love this podcast, spread the word and follow us. Are you eager to get more tips? Follow University of York Careers and Placements on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. All useful links are in this episode’s description. This has been produced at the University of York Careers and Placements. For more information, visit york.ac.uk/careers.