Listen to this and all the previous episodes.

For grads interested in heritage, Rebecca Thompson might just have the dream job (she describes it as ‘one of the best jobs in the world’): Senior Estate Manager at English Heritage, where she cares for over 400 buildings and monuments in England.

She has lots of info to help people wanting to get into the sector, including how to network, skills shortages and the impact of climate change.

Rebecca’s bio:

After starting in commercial construction, Rebecca followed her interest in cultural heritage and studied a Masters in Archaeology of Buildings at York. She is now Senior Estate Manager at English Heritage. She has channelled her love of historic buildings into a career making sure they are relevant and sustainable for future generations. She cares about promoting equality and diversity in the heritage sector and ensuring our craft skills are utilised so they are not lost.

Useful links:

• Museums and Heritage sector
• English Heritage
• Historic England

Relevant professional bodies:

• Chartered Institute for Archaeologists
• Institute of Historic Building Conservation
• Chartered Institute of Building

More Museum and Heritage related podcast stories:

• Digital archaeologist and entrepreneur
• Marketing in the museum, with Tasha McNaught
• Talking census: a career in genealogy, with Christina Copland
• Working in heritage: In the archive in lockdown

Transcript:

Kate: 

You’re listening to the ‘What Do You Actually Do?’ podcast. Each week we want to bring you an inspiring interview, a useful tip or encouraging message to help you find your place in the professional world. 

Hello and welcome to this episode of ‘What Do You Actually Do?’. My name is Kate Morris, and I’ll be your host today. In today’s episode we’ll be talking about working in the heritage sector. Today we’re joined by Rebecca Thompson who works as senior estate manager for English Heritage. So, Rebecca, what do you actually do? 

Rebecca: 

Well, I think I’ve got one of the best jobs in the world really. I am senior estate manager for English Heritage, and English Heritage cares for over 400 buildings and monuments in England. So as a start off, that’s just an amazing place to be. I actually look after the north of England, which is everything north of Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire, Lincolnshire, right up to the Scottish borders. So I’ve got keys to most of the castles. 

Kate: 

Wow! 

Rebecca: 

I know, it’s great. And the portfolio is really diverse and the team are fantastic. So I look at forward planning of all the work that we’ve got to do. So we respond to quinquennial inspections, sort of, roughly every five years all of our monuments are inspected and it gives us a maintenance plan, and a project plan of the works that we’ve got to do, and also any response items, because, of course, we’re looking after all of the visitors that come to our site, so we’ve got to be compliant and make sure everybody is safe, and that the sites are as accessible as they possibly can be. 

Kate: 

So do you make those project plans yourself? Are you kind of writing up – all this needs doing, that needs doing, this needs addressing? Or do you oversee people who make up those lists and make those assessments?  

Rebecca: 

It is quite often a team effort. However, I do write up a lot of the feasibility of what the project might look at. We’ve also then got a national projects team that does the really, really big stuff. So our smaller projects, and we’re talking like up to £100,000, we as a team write those up and instigate those projects within the territories. 

Kate: 

And are you having to then bid for funding to kind of work on these projects, or are you allocated a certain budget every year for maintenance and repairs, and it’s just up to you guys how you apply that? 

Rebecca: 

Yeah, it’s a bit of both really. We do have a budget, which very much relies on our brilliant members. So everybody visiting our English Heritage sites and becoming members, and spending money in the shops, and having your cup of tea and your lovely scone – that actually all goes towards the conservation and maintenance of the sites. We do have a brilliant funding team as well, so we do rely on external funding and legacies. So there are some wonderful people that leave us legacies in their will, and we do our very best to make sure that that legacy fits with their values as well, and make sure that that work then goes on for the next generations of people. So we’re very thankful for wherever the money comes from, because it’s quite a difficult environment to work in. 

Kate: 

So it sounds like… Are you getting out and about quite a lot, or are you kind of more office-based and having meetings with people who are on site? I mean, you mentioned you got the keys to all the castles, so I’ve got visions of you rattling those around and going from place to place. How does it work? 

Rebecca: 

It’s quite a nice balance, actually. I do get out and about, [but] not as much as my team. So I’ve got a team of building services managers who look after all of the, sort of, supporting items like, you know, everybody who needs toilets, and ticketing, and fire safety, and security systems, and all of that kind of thing. I’ve got the building conservation managers who look after the conservation and maintenance of the monuments. And then we’ve got the landscape management managers, because the settings for the monuments are as important, and of course their delivery, not only their day job, in making sure that the sites are accessible and safe, and the grass is cut, but also linking that with our brilliant Coronation Meadows theme, that’s obviously going on this year and for the next 10 years, and our nature strategy too. So they’re out and about on the sites, obviously more than I am, but if I’m writing a feasibility for a project, obviously I need to be out and having a look, and taking photographs and specifying, and surveying, and collaborating with everyone else in the other teams in English Heritage, our curators and surveyors too. 

Kate: 

It sounds like it’s a really varied role then. And lots of communication with – and having that bigger picture of – the whole team and everyone’s different contributions. You’ve got that oversight and how it all fits together. 

Rebecca: 

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. I think you’ve absolutely nailed it. Communication is essential, and the appreciation of everybody’s skills, because we’ve got such a talented, diverse group of people, and everybody’s opinion matters. And sometimes that can be quite tricky, because all of our sites are complex. But if you listen and talk to each other – and I say listen first – you will get to the answer that’s the right way forward for the site. 

Kate: 

Is it…  

Rebecca: 

And… 

Kate: 

Sorry, go on.  

Rebecca: 

No, I was going to say – and sometimes that just takes a long time. 

Kate: 

I’m just wondering… It must be particularly tricky at the moment with the combination of environmental concerns, and then the rising energy costs, because traditionally, you know, beautiful old buildings are not particularly well insulated old buildings. Is this presenting a sort of additional challenge and stretching the budgets even further? How is this sort of current situation affecting things? 

Rebecca: 

Yeah, you’re right. So we do have a number of roofed mansions, and in that situation, we’ve got high energy costs. We’ve got a brilliant team that are looking at reducing our carbon footprint, reducing our energy costs, and introducing new technologies where we can. So at Dunstanburgh Castle, for example, we now have composting toilets and PV solar panels to run a generator, so basically it’s off-grid. So you can actually combine modern technology with our historic sites if you’re careful, considerate, talk to all the right stakeholders and, you know, think about all of the aspects and the risks, and the impacts that that might have. But it can be done. So I think we’re in exciting times on one hand. The cost is, gosh, I think it’s just scary for everybody, isn’t it, at the moment, where the energy costs are going, but the other advantage, I guess, to some of our sites is that we do also have a lot of ruinous buildings and therefore they’re not heated. They don’t have a roof, and they’re just a really great place for people to visit in terms of enjoying history, mental health, and getting out in the fresh air. So people do tend to dress for the occasion, as in nice and warm when it’s a cold day. 

Kate: 

That’s a big advantage if something doesn’t have a roof.  

So you did a broad science degree about 10 years ago with the Open University, but more recently you completed a Masters in Buildings Archaeology at York. I’m just wondering what prompted you to return to academia and how this has impacted on your career? 

Rebecca: 

Well, I guess you never ever stop learning. So I started off at York College and did a HNC in Building Studies. I went into commercial construction, starting with a university degree, which was very much around commercial construction, so it was design, and technology, and science. And then I joined York Minster as the Superintendent of Works, and was fascinated with the cultural heritage side of things. So I added – as you can do with an Open University degree – modules that then looked at archaeology and cultural heritage, and religion in history, which were brilliant. So like I say, you learn every day in the jobs that we do anyway, but once I left the Minster, I thought, I just wanted more background learning to help with the environmental side of historic buildings, the responsible retrofit and understanding, and reading, and analysing the archaeology of buildings, which then led me to English Heritage. So I think if you follow your passion, it leads you to the jobs that you end up in, if that makes sense. 

Kate: 

Yeah. And so did you just want to kind of consolidate things further by doing a Masters? Or was that sort of a personal goal of yours to sort of get that further study? 

Rebecca: 

It was probably more personal indulgence, and the fact that I could do it. You never stop learning, and I just really… The course offered by York was so fantastic and I’d wanted to do it for a number of years, but you know, again, it’s cost and you’ve got to save up and everything else, but the course was so fantastic that I just felt I had to do it, and it has enhanced things for me in terms of my career, and it has widened my thinking, and my knowledge, and how I look at the management of historic buildings. So you never stop learning, but never stop investing in yourself either, I think. 

Kate: 

So you’ve talked a bit about skills already, but I’m just wondering what you would say, what kind of personal strengths or qualities would you need to sort of be both successful but also happy working in the heritage sector, and estates management in particular? Because it sounds like, as you say, there’s quite a lot of diplomacy required at times. You’ve got all this financial budget management, as well as having a real sensitive understanding of what historically, you know, is important for the buildings, but you’re then trying to combine that with all the stuff around the environment and cost savings. What would you say you need to be good at, and the, kind of, perhaps the personal side of things, if you’re going to enjoy this type of work? 

Rebecca: 

Yeah, that’s a really good question. So I think that my commercial construction background has really helped me, and it’s helped me in the heritage sector because of the financial management side of things, of the project management side of things, and the people management side of things. You know, construction projects are fast moving and high spend in a short period of time, you know, there’s a lot to think about in terms of delivery and making sure you’re on time and on budget. But for the heritage sector, obviously older buildings work and respond differently to modern buildings, so it’s that different learning – the practical learning – about historic buildings, and the materials, and the skills, how they’re built and why they’re still here today. But it is about a passion for that cultural and built heritage. The people that are involved in all of these buildings are as important as the buildings – they’re what make the buildings important to us today, that gives us the connection. 

Kate: 

It sounds like having that really strong technical understanding, but combined with really enjoying working, and talking, and communicating with others. 

Rebecca: 

Yes. The passion has definitely got to be backed up by the learning, by the knowledge. And, like I say, you never stop learning. I read all of the time, I will learn something new every day. We all, we don’t know everything about all of these buildings, but if you listen to your colleagues and you talk, and you debate, and you discuss – you will continue to learn every single day. 

Kate: 

So you’re obviously really, really passionate about the work that you do. What’s the key thing that you really love about it, and what’s the worst aspect of it? 

Rebecca: 

The key thing that I learn is actually being a part of this heritage. We are maintaining this heritage for such a tiny dot in its history. But while you’re there, you genuinely care. You put your heart and soul into the maintenance and management of these buildings. What I love about it is the passion, and the enthusiasm, and the commitment that I get from all of the team around me, and all of the people that we work with further afield as well. And the hardest part is probably the budgeting, it’s probably the finance side of it, thinking of what can we do, how do we just achieve this to make sure we’re sustainable in our conservation. We’ve got to be really careful that a project isn’t vanity, that it is really practically leading us towards a sustainable maintenance situation. So that’s the difficult part I guess. But when there isn’t enough money – there aren’t bounds of money coming at us – equally you’ve got to be quite innovative and agile, and creative with how you spend that money and how you communicate it, so I quite enjoy that side too. 

Kate: 

Even the bad bits you really like. 

Rebecca: 

I do, I do, yes. There’s nothing that I don’t really enjoy. Everyone has frustrating days, don’t they? But overall, I do love working in the heritage sector. 

Kate: 

For students and perhaps recent grads who are thinking they might want to break into this sector, what should they be anticipating as kind of the key challenges for the future of the sector over the next few years? Is there anything that’s on your horizon that you’re working towards, you’re sort of starting to have to do more research and thinking about? 

Rebecca: 

Well, definitely the impact of climate change. So we are seeing an impact on our historic buildings, we’re seeing coastal erosion, we’re seeing materials respond to the hotter, drier spells, the long wet Autumns followed by frost, and that sort of damage that it causes. So I think that interest in the environment as well as building materials is good if you’ve got an interest in that too. My view is always: just follow your passion, follow whatever it is that interests you. This sector is so diverse, you know, we have got surveyors, we’ve got archaeologists above ground and below ground, we’ve got engineers that look at geology and buildings, we’ve got landscape managers, and building conservation, and building services, we’ve got fire experts, we’ve got environmental experts. It’s such a diverse industry to be in that I think whatever passion you’ve got, you could contribute to our heritage with those skills. 

Kate: 

And for anyone who is particularly keen on the Estates Management side of things, any advice for, sort of, how to break into that? What type of work experience is useful to get? It sounds like having, sort of, some experience in construction is useful. Is there anything else that you would say is a good idea that would help someone have a taste to see if they do like it, but also to help, you know, make them more employable and get a foot in the door? 

Rebecca: 

Yeah. Well, I would always say: use your network. Use your own network to see who you’ve got that can link you to the industry, and then ask for work experience. Ask for a mentoring session with a leader in the industry. I do that a lot for a lot of people coming into the industry, and I think a lot of my peers do that too. You know, we welcome the next generation of heritage professionals because it isn’t a big pool of people, and there is also a skills shortage. I think we’re starting to see more of an interest in the traditional craft skills, which is wonderful, and I’m hoping that more people do, whether they are actually hands on stone masons, joiners or carpenters, electricians, plumbers, or whether they are surveyors or engineers – everyone’s needed. We do have a skills shortage in the heritage sector. 

Kate: 

And when you say about using a network and ask people, should students be kind of finding out people’s email addresses? Should they contact them on LinkedIn? Should they actually visit historic places and ask to speak to estates manager or conservation manager, or whoever it is that they kind of want to talk to? What’s the best way to approach it? I know a lot of students feel a little intimidated to do that kind of thing, and kind of want to know what’s the right approach to take in that kind of situation, and how to ask for help. 

Rebecca: 

I would say LinkedIn is a good forum really, and if they upload their own sort of desires, what they’re actually looking for, onto LinkedIn and then linking with people that connect with their ambition – there will either be the network that they connect with, or that network will know somebody, and LinkedIn is a really good forum for that. My other advice, I would say, is to join as a student with the professional organisations. So I’m a member of the Chartered Institute of Building, of the Institute of Historic Building Conservation. There’s the, you know, the archaeologists have got their own organisation too. There’s the RICS. So if you join as a student member, that’s a really good network of like-minded professionals that will also help you with your career. And it gives you that grounding I think, being a member of a professional institution shows that you have got the values and the attitude to be a good work colleague, a good professional advocate for the industry that you’re in. 

Kate: 

Yeah, I think that’s really great advice. And some of those organisations provide extra career support, don’t they, and perhaps networking events and other tools, and research, and reports that you can access if you’re a member. Some of them advertise jobs as well. So yeah, I think that’s a good idea. Adding that extra layer of credibility, and it allows you to link, and connect, and build these networks. 

Rebecca: 

Yes, and I think that’s probably a safer and more targeted way of improving your network in the profession that you want to follow, and I guess that’s in any profession, not just in the heritage sector.

Kate: 

Yeah, I mean, certainly I think LinkedIn is such a powerful tool, and lots of people that I speak to have sort of said similar things – that that’s really the best way to approach people. And it’s surprising how receptive and helpful lots of people are, because we’ve all been there, haven’t we? We’ve all started out somewhere, and it’s just having a chat with somebody and helping to understand it a bit more, and it can lead to other things. 

Rebecca: 

Yeah, that’s absolutely right. 

Kate: 

Brilliant, well, for more info about the careers we’ve mentioned today – and I’ll get some of those professional bodies’ websites as well – I’ll add some relevant links to the episode description and a link to the full transcript of today’s show. But Rebecca, thank you so much for taking time to do this. It’s been really interesting hearing about your work and, yeah, I think that’d be really helpful for lots of students and graduates who are absolutely desperate to break into the heritage sector. 

Rebecca:

Thank you. Thank you for inviting me to join your podcast, I’ve really enjoyed it. And good luck to anybody out there joining the heritage sector, we welcome you.