What Do You Actually Do? Episode 60: Bethany Watrous, Digital archaeologist and entrepreneur

/ yorkcareers

Listen to this and all the previous episodes.

Bethany is a York graduate and director of Experience Heritage, where she uses her expertise in archaeology and interest in digital storytelling to bring history to live in innovative ways. That could mean augmented reality experiences, interactive heritage apps and digital animation.

Bethany tells us how she started her own company after realising there was a gap in the market where she could combine her interests in archaeology and storytelling. 

Bethany’s bio:

Bethany is a digital archaeologist and entrepreneur. She has studied film, archaeology and digital heritage and began Experience Heritage in 2018 after receiving her Masters with distinction from University of York. She’s passionate about bringing history to life and making heritage more accessible for more people.

Useful links:

Related podcast episodes:

Transcript:

Kate: 

You’re listening to the “What do you actually do?” podcast. Each week we want to bring you an inspiring interview, a useful tip, or encouraging message to help you find your place in the professional world. 

Hello and welcome to this episode of “What do you actually do?”. My name is Kate Morris and I’ll be your host today. In today’s episode we’ll be talking about digital heritage and setting up an immersive technology company. Today we’re joined by Bethany Watrous, who’s director and lead digital archaeologist at Experience Heritage. So Bethany, what do you actually do? 

Bethany: 

So I do a lot of things. So I started out in archaeology of buildings, focusing on reconstructive 3D modelling of lost structures from archival evidence. And from that I built the company to do digital interpretation for heritage sites. That can include anything from 3D models, photogrammetric models, we do mobile applications, augmented reality, anything that helps tell the history of a site in an immersive way and make history more accessible to more people. 

Kate: 

So for you, are you designing those 3D models and creating them, and is it kind of that tech focus that you’ve go?. Or are you having to kind of win the business and get the clients in the first place? 

Bethany: 

I am doing it all at the moment, it’s really just myself mainly with the business at the moment. So although I feel more prepared to do the actual tech stuff, the 3D modelling and the research, and all that. I’m also kind of… It’s kind of been a crash course in business management because I’m doing all of that as well, and trying to wear seven different hats at the same time. But yeah, it’s been a learning experience definitely, because I didn’t have any background in business management before doing this. So yeah, I’m just kind of trying to balance my time between doing the actual project work and kind of drumming up the projects. 

Kate: 

So what was your starting point then? Where did your interest in digital heritage, and then also the idea to start up your own company – where did that come from? 

Bethany: 

Well, I’ve been interested in archaeology since I was a very young girl. But when I went to my undergrad, I was being told that archaeology was one thing and not really understanding that there are many facets to it. And what I was really interested in was learning about medieval architecture and what it was like to be in those spaces when they were, you know, fully decorated, and you know, not in ruin, and things like that. So, I ended up going into film instead, because I’m just a storyteller, I love visual storytelling. But then eventually I decided that I really wanted to go back and do my archaeology work, so I went and got my masters here at the university of York in Buildings Archaeology. And through that, doing the study I was reconstructing Slingsby Castle, which is now basically just four corners of the building, and using archival evidence to reconstruct it. And finding that in archaeology there are the archaeologists, and then there are the digital people and there is very little overlap between archaeologists who can do the reconstructive models and take all of their research into the reconstruction side of it, and oftentimes they’re outsourcing that work to people who aren’t archaeologists, so they’re missing out on information that you can glean from the reconstruction of a 3D space. So out of that I kind of realised that that was something that was a gap that I wanted to fill with my multiple kind of background and angles. So that’s why I started the business, because I just… I myself want to go to a heritage site and stand there and be able to actually visualise what this ruin used to look like when it was fully functional, and those people moving around the space, and things like that. So I wanted to bring that to other people as well. 

Kate: 

So that’s really interesting that it’s bringing together these two different skill sets, and I totally see what you mean. If someone is just from a tech background, they may not fully understand all the archaeological elements and the sort of historical elements that would have gone into a building. And it’s important to get those details right, I imagine, if you want it to be realistic. 

Bethany: 

Yeah, it’s funny because it comes both ways. You need the archaeologists to inform the digital side of it so that you get an accurate representation, but then you also, when you’re building, you realise that, you know, you may only have a floor plan and you have to think about what did the upper levels look like, or how many were there, and what was the roof slant, and just lots of things that a digital artist would just kind of maybe fill in because they don’t really think about it from an archaeological perspective. 

Kate: 

So who’s your audience then? Because it sounds like, from what you’ve just described there, it would be members of the public visiting an actual site that’s maybe in ruins, and you’re able to give them an experience to help them understand what it would have looked like. So I can see there’s a kind of a public element to this. But do you have other types of audiences or clients that you would also be pitching this to, or that would sort of find uses for this type of thing? 

Bethany: 

Yeah, so in fact I kind of consider myself a business to business company. We work a lot with trusts, heritage trusts and city councils, and things like that, who are trying to engage the public in their sites, or their towns and the history there. So yeah, we’re doing a lot of mobile applications, but it’s actually for our clients who are trying to reach their public rather than us kind of working directly with the public. Although we are also developing our own product which would be a series of heritage trails that we’ll be pushing out as our own product as well, so we’re kind of taking on board that business to client aspect as well. 

Kate: 

So that would be more like a heritage tourism kind of element? 

Bethany: 

Yeah, and part of that is, we’re developing a platform for developing Heritage Trust or Heritage Trail apps, so that part would also be to business clients who want to build their own trails and do it in kind of a more streamlined and easy way. So yeah, lots of different elements. 

Kate: 

Yeah, it seems like there’s kind of, there’s a lot you could do from that starting point, and lots of potential room for growth. I’m just wondering how the pandemic has impacted on your work, because on the one hand we know museums and heritage in particular really suffered because obviously you couldn’t get the visitors. And then the interest in digital that was already there pre-COVID became more and more. A lot of them were doing sort of social media related stuff. Has the pandemic been an opportunity for you as a business or has it had more of a negative impact? 

Bethany: 

Yeah, I think it’s been a bit of both. There were certainly very quiet periods when museums and heritage sites were kind of just in survival mode and just concerned about keeping their own staff on, let alone thinking about how to, you know, kind of reach to the public. So during that time it was very quiet, but I think it’s actually been really beneficial as well, in the fact that it’s opened a lot of heritage organisations’ eyes to how they can use digital and how useful it really is. Because I think before the pandemic we had a few conversations with larger trusts and things who were kind of stuck on things that they had already known, like just standard audio tours and things like that, and not really wanted to experiment with some of the more immersive digital opportunities. But now we’re finding that everyone, kind of, now they’re seeing that this is a need, this is what the public expects, and if something like this happens again, they want to be prepared. So I think it is going to really start to make it take off in this area in heritage because of that. 

Kate: 

So you mentioned earlier your academic qualifications. I’m just wondering if you could sort of pinpoint specific personal strengths or qualities that you think would be useful to have if someone wanted to maybe break into digital heritage or the tech sector more generally. It sounds like, particularly with your two hats of being the techie person, but also actually winning the business in the first place – what kind of strengths or skills do you need to do that? 

Bethany: 

I think having an openness to trying new things and saying like – “well, I don’t know, I’m not really strong on this technology at the moment, but through working on different projects that will be my training and I’ll, you know, I’ll expand my knowledge through the work”. Because a lot of it’s just been, I’ve had to self-teach to develop a lot of the skills that I use now. And I think if you’re one of those people that feels like you can’t get started unless you’re an expert, then it’s a little bit harder to move forward, I think, because you end up using so many different things that you might not even think about when you get started, software and things like that. And also software – they’re always changing, so I think you have to be a pretty flexible person and just, kind of, try to be more adventurous, I guess, and say yes to things and just, kind of, yeah… That’s kind of a more ethereal answer, I guess. 

Kate: 

Well, no, there’s something… It sounds like a curiosity, a willingness to try things out, so that a bit of risk taking there, learning through doing, giving it a go, rather than waiting for that moment when you feel ready to do this. Anything else? That’s something that is quite a sort of intellectual process, if you like. Is there anything else in terms of perhaps interpersonal skills? If you’re having to go out and win these contracts and, as you say, you’re changing mindsets from the traditional visitor experience to something quite different. So is there anything else in terms of skills that you think is useful to have if you want to do this type of work? 

Bathany: 

I don’t know if I would call it a skill, but I think it’s really important that you express your passion, because I think my passion for what I want to produce is what often helps me to sell it to clients. Because if you can create that vision in their mind of what is possible, then it’s a lot easier to get in the door, you know, like make that sale because you’re selling them on the idea and the passion there, so that’s one thing I would say. As far as kind of interpersonal skills, I would say I always try to encourage people because I’m, I wouldn’t say I’m the most outgoing person, but you have to tie it all to your passion, and then once, you know, you develop your passion, and you kind of become the expert in that field, it’s much easier to talk to people about it because everyone is just really curious to know more and you can then tackle those kind of conversations in that way a bit easier. Yeah, I think most of the other skills I’ve just kind of had to learn as I go – client management and things like that have all been kind of training on the job, I would say. 

Kate: 

So it sounds like you’re learning a lot and figuring it out as you go along. What’s the thing that you really love about the work, that kind of keeps you going and keeps you motivated to learn these new skills and keep building? 

Bethany: 

Well I really love the creative side of what I do and the academic side, and I’m a big nerd. Like I always tag everything ‘heritage nerd’. So I think it’s just because I’m so… I really want to use the things that I end up making. I really want to visualise what might have been, and understand something on a more personal level. So I think what I’m creating ignites that passion in me every time I make it, because it’s, yeah, it’s exactly what I want to see when I go to these sites. So that’s yeah, I think that’s what keeps me going. I’m doing exactly what I’ve always wanted to do, even if I didn’t, I couldn’t put words to it when I was younger. 

Kate: 

It’s almost like time travel really, isn’t it? 

Bethany: 

Yeah, exactly, yeah, it’s as close as we can get maybe to understanding what it was like to live in different times. And I really, yeah, I’m really passionate about that. 

Kate: 

So what’s the worst bit of the role then? 

Bethany: 

The worst bit… I think for me it’s the stress of having to do, kind of, so many different roles at once, and sometimes feeling like you can’t entirely commit as much time as you’d like to something, especially something that I like. I really enjoy the creative stuff, and I’d much rather spend all my time doing that, but I’ve got to also do, you know, the books and all the other stuff to keep the company going. I’m hoping to eventually expand the team so I can start to give those roles to somebody else who’s much more qualified than myself, but at the moment it’s just learning how to balance my time and, you know, make sure to do everything in the right order and everything just to get things done and out the door. 

Kate: 

Yeah, I can imagine. You’ve got so many different elements to the role that you’re doing – trying to run a startup, build it, do all the tech stuff, win the business, think of the different ways you can develop it and kind of ways you can branch out. So yeah, it’s a lot. 

Bethany: 

It is. I’m lucky I have my brother, who is a software developer, and he’s sort of part… He’s not like officially part of the business yet, but he’s been helping me a lot so I’ve got that one person to kind of bounce ideas off of, so that’s been helpful. 

Kate: 

That must be nice actually, because when I’ve spoken to sort of entrepreneurs before, there can be a loneliness to it, if you’re trying to do something and it takes over your life, because you obviously have to put all your energy into it. But then you’re about one world expert in that one particular thing, so it must be nice to have someone who can relate and understand what you’re doing, and is sort of joining you at least in some part on that journey. 

Bethany: 

Yeah, I think there’s so many times where I just need to talk something through with someone who understands what I’m talking about, and so having him, even… I mean he’s in a different time zone entirely, so sometimes it’s a game of waiting till he’s awake to discuss things because he’s back in America. But yeah, it’s very handy to have somebody, because if I didn’t have him I’d have to talk to myself I guess. That might get a little weird. 

Kate: 

You’d have to create your own avatar, and be your own helper. So kind of thinking about the future, it sounds like you can see loads of really interesting potential development areas for the business, but what do you think the key challenges will be for the digital heritage sector and sort of immersive technology related work over the next few years? Because it seems to be an area that’s really, really growing and gaining momentum. 

Bethany: 

I think it’s going to be about the technology, that, especially the academic heritage community starts to adopt, because the problem has been that we as archaeologists use digital technology that was developed for other industries, and I think that’s probably not going to change anytime soon. But as we go forward in the ways that we’re telling these stories digitally, it’s about how can we adapt what’s being developed for film or whatever it is so that we can tell archaeological stories in a more accurate way and make them useful for education and things like that. So, and I think, like speaking of augmented reality, that’s one of the things that seems to be coming out right now. That seems to be one area that a lot of people are adopting and I think it’s going to be popular in heritage as well as it has been in other industries. So it’s just about how can archaeologists adopt it in a way that is useful and not just using it because it’s popular and because it’s a fun kind of toy to play with. So I think it’s just getting around that obstacle of – how are we using it in a way that’s serving us rather than just doing it because it’s popular. 

Kate: 

Yeah, you can imagine a really sort of superficial use of it, so I can see to make it meaningful is the key challenge. So for students who are thinking about working in digital heritage, or maybe the tech sector more generally, any advice for kind of what type of experience might be useful to gain? I mean, I appreciate you said you have academic qualifications and experience in kind of film and the arts, as well as then quite a few years later getting this kind of formal academic qualification in the Buildings Archaeology. Is that advisable to gain more professional training and knowledge in these areas, or any other ways that it could be useful for them to start gaining relevant skills for that type of work? 

Bethany: 

Yeah, I think keep your mind open to maybe a more broad selection of things that you kind of work with and study. It can be easy to get on one track and just focus on one thing, but I think there’s benefits to having a wide range of skills. And I mean, coding skills are always useful for a lot of the things that we do. Any kind of 3D modeling, I think there are a lot of applications for a lot of different industries for that, so I think kind of combining those things is really useful. But yeah, also just kind of, if you’re interested in the academic side as well, combining that kind of study if you possibly can, because I was just lucky to have the course that taught archaeology, but also 3D modeling, and so that was a nice broad kind of coverage of skills. And then I think it’s just about getting out there and getting whatever kind of experience you can, even if it’s generally related to what you want to end up doing, because you never know what that will lead into. 

Kate: 

Yeah, I think that’s a really interesting point, because given that this is such a developing area, and as you say, with sort of immersive reality and automation, you know these are all very new things that you can’t necessarily identify a specific job title that you might want to be. It’s kind of, it’s emerging as we’re going along, so yeah, building up experience in a range of areas and preparing for whatever comes next sounds like a good way to approach it. 

Bethany: 

Yeah, I’ve kind of created my own job title, so it’s kind of like I found my very specific niche that I was interested in, which combined a lot of the things I’ve done in the past and then created my own job title. So, you know, you don’t have to stick to one thing. 

Kate: 

And do you have any tips for anyone who might be thinking about starting their own business, because particularly from an archaeology background, I know sometimes people worry about – “ah I don’t have any business skills, I wouldn’t know how to do that”, but as you say, if you want to kind of create your own job and forge your own path, actually being kind of freelance and self-employed could be the way to do it. So any top tips for people thinking about that? 

Bethany: 

Sure, well, I would suggest if you’re in a university, just getting connected with the Enterprise office if possible and just finding as many opportunities to network and say yes to different things that come along. I’m getting to the point now where I have to start wanting to say no to opportunities that come around. But when I was starting out, it was just really useful connecting with the University Enterprise office and then that kind of set me on a path to connecting with the City Council, and all the different opportunities that come along for startups and business growth. So there’s a lot that you can take advantage of, just even in the city and through university, so I would just say get started there. Just ask as many questions as you can and try to take advantage of as many opportunities, and then just be open to learning as you go, because you’re not going to be an expert when you first start, you’re just going to have to do it and learn as you go. 

Kate: 

Well, I’m going to put some information about the Enterprise support here at York, but all universities tend to do that. Everyone supports students who want to start their own thing. But I’ll add some links to the show notes along with the full transcript of today’s show. Bethany, thank you so much for joining us today. It sounds so fascinating, the work that you’re doing is really, really exciting, so thanks for giving up your time today. 

Bethany: 

Thanks so much for having me today.

Kate:

Thanks for joining us this week on ‘What Do You Actually Do?’. This episode was hosted by myself, Kate Morris, and edited and produced by the Careers and Placements team. If you love this podcast, spread the word and subscribe. Are you eager to get more tips? Follow University of York Careers and Placements on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook and Instagram. All useful links are in this episode’s description. This has been produced at the University of York Careers and Placements. For more information, visit york.ac.uk/careers